This is a transcript from our weekly YouTube live AMA:

SPEAKERS: Anita Mlakar, Sandi Bitenc and Nadja Bester.

About AMA: In this AMA we’re speaking to Nadja Bester. Nadja Bester is an entrepreneur, startup advisor, and marketing and communications expert with 16 years of experience. Currently co-founder at AdLunam, Inc., the crypto industry’s first Engage to Earn investment platform with a Proof of Attention model, she has been in blockchain since 2017.

AMA Duration: 01:01:59

Introduction:

Anita Mlakar: 00:21

Hello everybody and welcome to our weekly AMA. It is time for 3air, and I do hope you are with us as you usually are on Wednesdays. Anita Mlakar is my name and I’m the host of this AMA and really looking forward to today’s. As you may know 3air here of course with you on our channels, you can be with us all the time, but only on Wednesdays we are live here and giving you possibilities to comment things, to ask questions and that is why also the CEO of 3air Sandi Bitenc is with us and he will be joining us in a couple of seconds.

01:03

I always do a short introduction of what 3air is doing of our project and I will start with it today also. So, connect Africa cities with a fast and stable internet connection and become the first fully decentralized telecom platform in the world is the goal of 3air.

01:24

Someone did ask a question in our community on Telegram, what is the purpose of 3air token or its utility? So, I will be answering this question right now. Payments for all digital services, digital identities, broadband internet, digital TV, IP telephony, staking and securing the 3air chain enabling your own hardware initiative, enabling broadband sharing and roaming and ensuring the infrastructure, then loyalty system discounts on services and other rewards governance and voting micro loans and collateral cross collateral for them. 3air token buybacks and token burns and so on and so on. So, we are connecting the unconnected. Once people have an internet connection, we can provide them with the digital identities. Over 400 million people in Africa don’t have any idea, we are connecting them. So, then we can bank the unbanked all through blockchain.

02:33

Please do read more about 3air, you can of course, join our communities on Telegram, on Twitter, on Discord. Or you can visit our website and see the white paper, read about us 3air.io is our website and you’re welcome to join us there. And of course, please be here. Do connect with us through these AMAs. This is the opportunity for you of course to ask questions to ask whatever you would like to know right now. And that is why I’m inviting Sandi to be with us today as he usually is.

Sandi Bitenc, CEO of 3air Joins the AMA

Anita Mlakar: 03:08

Sandi Bitenc. Hello, CEO of 3air.

Sandi Bitenc: 03:12

Hello, Anita. How are you?

Anita Mlakar: 03:15

I’m great. Thank you very much, I am a little cold but still great. How are you? Little warmer? Right?

Sandi Bitenc: 03:20

A little warmer. Yeah. I think Winter is coming to Slovenia right now. Next week, when we do the next day AMA, I’ll already be joining you there in Maribor or somewhere close probably. Maybe on the way to Maribor but I’m currently in Florida. So here it’s really nice. It’s really warm. It’s still winter here also but winters are just like our summers there in Europe.

Anita Mlakar: 03:53

Would you share a little with us what you’re doing there and how was your day today because you already told me something. So, what is going on and what are you doing there, not only working but also enjoying?

Sandi Bitenc: 04:06

Yeah, we tried now to take a few days off or let’s say parts of the day off. So, before our AMA and we did do an airboat ride around the Everglades. We’re currently in the Everglades. So, I did manage to get one hour of free time and enjoyed it really much. So, we took a ride in the mangrove forest, so the mangroves are the trees that actually can grow out of water, and it was really nice.

Anita Mlakar: 04:48

Okay, Sandi, I’m really glad that you’re taking some time off just a little because as we talk, you always say I’m working, going to that event, doing that, preparing that and now you say I am actually enjoying it a little bit also spending time with my dear wife, right Sandi? This is great. You need it.

Sandi Bitenc: 05:09

Yeah. Two days before we also took some time off just trying to do really the most important thing that needs to be done and then take some time off. So, for two days we were in the Florida Keys, did some diving there. There are two really nice dives on a wreck, the sunk, a wreck a I think it’s a military ship. 120 meters long. It was really nice.

Anita Mlakar: 05:43

Okay, do tell me Sandi how are people preparing for Christmas there, is there Christmas in the air?

Sandi Bitenc: 05:51

The Christmas is like crazy here. Even when we first arrived in Florida, that was still in November, they were literally playing the Christmas songs like, all the time, literally all the time, you cannot hear anything else almost like the Christmas songs and that was already in November. They started the Christmas season right after Thanksgiving. Some of the houses are with hundreds of 1000s of lights. It’ll be just covered with lights. It’s something that we are not used to so much in Europe. So, they go a bit more crazy here in regards to that. It’s really funny because everything is like Jingle bells, and snow and there’s 30 degrees outside.

Anita Mlakar: 06:45

Yeah, I like that. I like the jingle bell thing. I have a lot of lights inside the house and can’t wait for Christmas to come. I’m also listening to the music, Christmas music and there are so many movies about Christmas. Every time I need to relax a little bit. I always look at this Christmas movie because it’s always ending the same way it is a happy ending. At the beginning who will fall in love with who and you don’t have to think a lot. So, I really enjoy that. I don’t do it only in December sometimes I do it in November or October too. But yeah, well, this is the time to do that. Do write down in the comment section. If you’re looking forward to Christmas, do write down where are you right now. And please ask questions, comment, or subscribe to our YouTube channel. If you’re not subscribed yet so that you will get notifications whenever we are live.

07:53

Sandi, I’m looking forward to today’s special guest on our AMA.

Sandi Bitenc: 07:58

Yeah, me too.

Anita Mlakar: 08:00

I’m happy because she’s a woman. So, it will be two to one today. We usually have men here and she’s really special. We already talked a little bit. I cannot wait to invite her in. So, let’s say hello, and welcome our dear guest, Nadja Bester is with us.

Nadja Bester Joins the AMA

Anita Mlakar: 08:21

Hello and welcome Nadja.

Nadja Bester: 08:22

Hi everybody, 3air community. So happy to be here, Sandi and Anita. So privileged to be able to speak to you today. Looking forward to it.

Nadja’s Background

Anita Mlakar: 08:30

All the pleasure is ours. We’re really looking forward to that. I will just in a couple of words, couple of sentences introduce you Nadja, if you allow me. Then I would really like you to tell more about yourself. So you are a co-founder at AdLunam, entrepreneurs startup advisor, marketing and communication expert. You have so many years of experience in that field and you are also in blockchain since 2017. So, it’s for five years now. You are sort of role model to me if I can say I’m also in communication and working in PR but just recently Sandi invited me to join also this let’s say blockchain family and you were in it for so long. Nadja could you tell us a little more about your story, about you?

Nadja Bester: 09:32

Absolutely. I think I’ll start with how I went from Marketing and Communications into this crazy world that we are in this industry.

09:41

In 2017, I was heading up Digital Marketing and Communications for a multibillion-dollar pharma company. I had it made in the corporate world and the trajectory forward was clear. Of course, if that’s not what you are called to do in is life then that’s not going to work out. I, at some point had become so tired of constantly being away from the house, I had a young child at the time, he was 10. I was constantly travelling for business, never home, always rushing to the next meeting. I was working with people all over the world but had to do it from the office and it was just such a mad lifestyle. I came to the point where I asked myself, but for what? why am I doing all of this, I’m doing this supposedly for my son, but I’m never with him. So that led to the decision to go travelling.

10:36

So, we started travelling six years ago, we haven’t stopped, we thought that we would stop after one year, but I think once the bug bites, you can never go back. I genuinely thought that this was early retirement, and I don’t know what I’m going to do with the rest of my life. But I don’t have to worry about it. Because I don’t have to think about it now. This is my time to learn to relax.

10:59

Then an opportunity came as it did for you, Anita, and I was able to start working as a journalist in the blockchain industry. Now, I had been a journalist at school, and I loved it, but I knew that this was never going to be my career, I was destined for other things, I started my career in psychology. So, that is the thing that I was going to do and then that went into a different direction. I had a lot of career trajectories, by the time that I actually ended up working as a journalist.

11:31

By then I think my life experience had schooled me so much in the sense that I’m ready for anything, I can do anything, I don’t need to have a background in something I learned on the go. A lot of this was as a result of having worked in the early commercial internet, I had a marketing agency serving clients from all over the world, since 2012. So, I really was very well versed with this crazy world of not knowing what the next step is, because the next step doesn’t exist yet.

12:07

When I became a journalist, it really gave me the opportunity to learn about this industry from the inside out, I was writing for publications like bitcoin.com, investing.com, and many others. It really allowed me to see what the potential of this technology is from many different sides, talking to so many projects. Later on, I started a communications agency. So also working with so many projects, but at the same time, talking to so many retail investors and seeing the hopes and the dreams and the creativity come in from the top and all bets from the bottom and everyone getting into this industry together and hoping that they are going to make something out of this. So, it was an amazing space to be in. Of course, we all know the wild west of those days. There are so many projects I work with that if I were to mention them, you never know their names, because they came in went, and there are others who went on to really become something and it’s as someone who’s been in the industry for so many years it’s really gratifying to see that those who are truly committed to building something, they are the ones that remain, because it’s also the agility, if what I’m doing right now doesn’t work out but I have the agility to renegotiate for myself what I can contribute. Which is of course, also why at AdLunam, as an investment platform, we work with so many different projects, because it’s exactly the spirit of innovation.

13:48

No matter what happens if I try and fail and try and fail, I’ll get up again, that gets us going. We love working with projects who are living this journey. So, in a nutshell.

How did AdLunam start?

Anita Mlakar: 14:04

Wow! Nadja, I see how much you love it because of the way you’re talking about it and work and everything that you’re doing, not a lot of people are enjoying their work so much as you are and really, we’re thrilled you talk about it. So, it’s really nice to see that. So, AdLunam, how did this story happened? How did it start?

Nadja Bester: 14:28

It’s a beautiful story, my co-founder, Jason Fernandes and I, we actually worked on a different project together and because of that project the bonds were laid, and we stayed friends. We each went our own way in the industry but because we stayed in constant close communication, we will always the kind of sounding board about what are the problems in the industry and what are the opportunities and so the idea behind AdLunam really came about when we thought about the fact that projects need launch pads. This is post ICO craze of the 2017-2018 era, launch pads came in as a way to really safeguard investors. I did an interview with HackerNoon a while ago, where suddenly speaking of mangroves, where I said that launchpads are like mangroves before you go out into the open sea, there is this little estuary where you can find your feet before you go to open sea in the big sharks are out there.

15:38

So, the role of a launchpad really is to support projects, to help them get in front of the retail investors, and simultaneously for retail investors to be able to trust that the projects that they are investing in, the due diligence has been done across the board. But they were so many limitations in this model.

16:01

So primarily, if you’re familiar with the way that launch pads work, they are two main ways of receiving allocation, in other words, a space in order to invest into a project during their public sale. One of these is guaranteed allocation via staking. So, if you put down enough funds, if you hold enough of the launchpad token, according to their criteria, you then get allocation guaranteed. Now the problem with this is, this is out of reach for most people, we are talking in the region of $25,000, then you get an allocation, and that location is $400. So, imagine you are putting down 25k. So that you can put in 400, to invest in the project. I mean, it’s absolute madness, from the perspective of the average person on the street, who absolutely cannot afford this. So, this is one thing that we looked at and said no, there must be a better way of doing this.

17:08

The other aspect, as someone who’s worked in marketing and communications for many years, and also us in this industry, knowing that attention is being sought from all sides. I mean, the noise in crypto is deafening. There’s always something happening, and we talk about 15 minutes of fame. But I mean, in crypto, it’s like two minutes of fame, because after two minutes, something else has happened and we all move on.

17:38

So, we also really thought how are we rewarding users on a daily basis, they are paying us with their attention. They need to pay attention because they need to know what’s happening in the industry. So, all of these engagements on Web2 platforms, very ironic. Everyone is on Telegram, everyone has on Twitter, on Discord and they have to spend that time not necessarily because they’re getting anything out of it, just to make sure that they are staying on top of what is happening.

18:11

Now, the problem is that if projects are looking for the best investors to receive allocation, and investors who are good investors who want to support projects, want to get allocation, the mechanism that existing launchpads had simply was not fit for this model. So launchpads have, as I mentioned, on the one hand guaranteed allocation via staking, or alternatively, they have a mechanism that is lottery based or auction based. So, it’s completely based on luck, faith, destiny, you know, whatever the heck, you can think of completely nothing that is based on merit. And so, what I’ve learned and does is we have developed an allocation mechanism called Proof of Attention. So, the engagement that you are already doing that is an calculated into a leaderboard. If you are at the top of the leaderboard guaranteed projects will want to invite you to get allocation into their projects. So this really fosters a very cooperative, healthy system partnership between projects and investors, with of course, as the one facilitating all of this. It’s a very privileged position to be in because there’s so much happening in the industry.

19:49

Especially in light of recent events, with FTX and all of those crazy things that have come to light that it really just highlights once again the responsibility almost I always call it the sacred responsibility that projects and companies in the space have to do the right thing to make the right decisions. So, we are very privileged to be part of AdLunam and to be building out the new era of social engagement and Web3.

Engage to Earn Model

Anita Mlakar: 20:23

Amazing idea and doing a lot of good, really. So, what we’re talking here, this is how actually engage to earn works, right?

Nadja Bester: 20:36

So, engage to earn is a little bit more, let’s say, next level. So as part of this gamified system, so if you can imagine, let’s say, a decentralized Reddit, where there’s a number of different messaging forums, and as a user, I am able to move across different forums, we also collect engagement from other platforms, from Web2 platforms like Twitter, Telegram, Discord, etc. And as I move up this leaderboard, I, as an investor, have an investor profile. Now, if you are familiar with Vitalik, Butyrin, and the concept of soul bound tokens, it’s somewhat similar in the sense that this is your identity, it doesn’t mean that it’s your real name, real address, come get me where I am. But whoever your identity is, this is the identity that your reputation is built around. So, this means that if I as an investor, if I’m someone who frequently gets into the top spot, I would very likely frequently get allocation offered to me by different projects.

21:52

Now, one individual might not always have the capacity to invest into all of these projects, whether financially. whether because of interest, but because the investor profile is an NFT, they are able to- it’s a dynamic NFT. So, it holds the store of value of the changing position on the leaderboard. So, this NFT can be fractionalized, which means that when they receive allocation, they can also fractionalize that allocation to allow other people to invest under them.

22:24

So, for example, if 200 People got allocation, but person number five allows two more people under them as part of their allocation. So, in this way, what happens is, the democratization of Web3 investment is further opened, if I as the person who received the allocation doesn’t actually have the funds to invest into this project but because of my reputation, because of my standing on the AdLunam system, I am able to allow other people to invest under me. So, I become almost a decentralized VC myself, venture capitalist myself.

23:13

So, this means that in essence, someone is truly able to ultimately invest into a project without originally having had the funds in and of themselves, really just leveraging their reputation. So, this is the idea behind Engage to Earn is really through your engagement you are able to earn because we strongly believe that Web3 investment is for everybody. There is not this idea that we have in traditional finance, where there’s all these gatekeepers you have to be at a certain income level, you have to be at a certain level of education being a Web3 everyone is already free to invest anyway but let’s not gatekeep at any further as unfortunately has been done over the last few years.

Who is your target audience?

Anita Mlakar: 24:05

Okay. So, your target audience is not only investors in that case, right?

Nadja Bester: 24:12

So, we have both the launchpad which is the public sale, so that would target primarily retail investors wanting to come in at the public sale level. We also have a seat pad however, so we do connect, whether that be retail investors or whether that is institutional investors, we are also able to connect them to early-stage projects. But ultimately, at the end of the day beyond our own role as a launchpad. We are first and foremost a technology company, we have developed a technology that can be leveraged. So, we are also partnering with other launchpads so that other launchpads may leverage our technology in order to raise for their own projects that they are launching. So really the ultimate goal is not AdLunam as a launchpad, but AdLunam as an Engage to Earn platform, where projects and retail investors are able to meet, whether it’s us as a launch pad or whether other launch pads are using the platform.

Nadja about NFTs

Anita Mlakar: 25:18

Wow, Nadja, you really know a lot about NFTs. And as I see, you’re also, just me just check host of the future of NFTs, right? Because we’re talking about NFTs a lot, also here at 3air. I would really like to hear more about your thinking about NFTs and the future. What do you think, what role they play?

Nadja Bester: 25:50

I love that question because I get to ask this on the show every single week. This is literally my question, what is the future of NFTs? So, it’s a privilege to be able to sit on the other side of the table. I think about NFTs and Web3 technologies in the same way as the internet. I remember a time when I first started my first marketing agency, where I had to convince business owners to get a website and they couldn’t understand why do they need a social media profile? And at that time, explain to somebody how the internet works, and what is a website and what is the social mechanism? I feel like I’m in a similar position now. You know, when I talk to the average person, people in my personal life, who asked what I do, and as soon as I start talking, and I mentioned even one word they don’t understand, which is probably the second word, they stop being able to listen, because it’s just incomprehensible.

27:01

So how I think about the future of NFTs is, I don’t think we are going to end our talking about NFTs as a separate technology. I think it’s just going to be integrated into the world, into business, into society as we know it because ultimately what is happening, we have at the surface layer, we have the hype, we have the media reporting on one NFT has been sold for $69 million. And then everyone rushes, and everyone got goes to buy PFPs. And so, you have that level of conversation. But at the same time, you have the underlying technology, which is fundamentally a technology which is agnostic to human ideas, in the sense that whoever comes in and is bold enough to build their ideas on top of this technology, in a large sense, they will define what the technology is all about.

28:02

So, actually 2023 is a very fun year for me, because I will be embarking on an amazing project that is actually inspired by this very question, what is the future of NFTs? I am writing a book about Web3 technologies. I remember when I was a journalist and I had to write about the future implications of blockchain and what it’s going to mean for the world. It was always such a frustrating experience to have to only talk about the theory, or to use the example of one project possibly doing something similar. But I don’t know if they’re a good project or are they only out to scam people. So, what I will be doing over the course of 2023 is rather than just research the book and use the theory, I will actually on a monthly basis be creating a new NFT use case that I am writing about. So very creative year ahead for me, but very excited to see what comes out of it because I think ultimately, as I said NFTs could be anything. I mean, there’s already so much out there about what the technology is capable of. But ultimately it is a technology, and it is only limited by human imagination. This is our job to leverage the imagination.

Sandi about NFTs

Anita Mlakar: 29:30

Yes, well, Sandi I have to include you into this because we’re talking about NFTs, and I know that you really like also that field and talking a lot about it. Nadja has a point and is really saying good. It’s she’s leading the way in a way and this field, it is amazing, right?

Sandi Bitenc: 29:54

It is and I fully agree that it’s only limited by our or imagination, I would add to that, that I really do hope that the regulation will still allow us to innovate in that space. So hopefully we will not allow this to be taken away from us. I think that within three, four or five years, something really amazing will come out, not one thing but multiple amazing things.

30:28

For me, really what I’m really scared about, currently is that because of the recent developments in the blockchain space, although I would say that FTX was nothing about blockchain, they were just using some tokens to do it in a way that blockchain is actually trying to replace decentralized entities. I’m really scared that something like this will force or allow the regulator’s to come up with some similar things that they did in the past with the stock exchanges, and so on. And that would potentially, really killed the innovation as it did also before.

31:15

If I look at Europe, I’m from Europe and I’ve tried to build businesses there in the past, and I know how hard it is, if there’s so many regulations in place, and nothing is really clear what you can do and what you cannot do, and so on. And if we look at the past, the tech, the .com revolution that was there, in the last 20-30 years, there is no big tech companies coming out of Europe. I would say this is just because of regulation. It doesn’t have anything to do they’re not stupid people, they are not people that don’t care about the technology or something like that. It’s just no way, either is that a tax issue or some other regulatory issue that this just doesn’t allow for the innovation to thrive, and for the businesses to grow and I really do hope that this will not be the case with NFTs and blockchain.

Nadja Bester: 32:26

I mean, I find it almost ironic in a sense, because we talk about blockchain technology being democratizing to users but in a sense, it’s also democratizing to founders because of the mature markets in the world being so regulatory heavy when it comes to this technology, it’s really allowing people in markets that otherwise would not have access to funding as easily. What I see that is quite sad is the world seems to very rapidly be dividing itself into zones where innovation is not safe, because it’s frowned upon by regulators and innovations being pushed forward. I think taking the long-term approach from a government perspective, I don’t see that happening, I see that there is so much fear from the regulatory perspective that, well, these are the systems that have been in place for hundreds of years in some sense. Now, this new technology, what right does it have to come along and to do a way, but at the same time, we are seeing that there are nations that are actually from a government standpoint, empowering themselves as a country, because they are open to regulations.

33:57

So, I think for NF T’s probably it is very early days. But yes, I do share your concerns. I’m afraid that these two zones in the world, where this is the zone where all the brilliant minds will go because it’s safe to go be innovative day, as opposed to- No, unfortunately, if you want to do something, that’s not the place for you to live. So yeah, time will tell, but hopefully governments learn from the successes of other governments who do take a more positive approach.

Sandi about regulation

Sandi Bitenc: 34:33

Yeah, and I do think that a bit of regulation would be positive for the space. So, I think that just right now, literally everyone can enter the space. In a sense, this is okay but on the other side, there’s also really easy for the scammers to enter and people that are the users they’re not educated well enough or maybe they’re even a bit too greedy. At least the people that are in the space right now, and they just get scammed. And that’s the problem. I think that is a big problem still. So, you don’t really need to be educating people fast that they can take care of themselves. This is something that the Coronation was less nature of blockchain actually, is all about. But the question really is, and this, I asked myself that quite a lot, are the users actually ready to take care of their own funds. There is no customer support to call when a transaction went to the wrong place or if somebody stole your funds, there’s no way to actually reverse the transaction. That is a bit of a challenge, in that sense. So, but where’s that thin line about regulating it in the sense that we just raised the entry level for everyone to the part that really the best projects, and the people that are capable of running projects properly, can enter, and not that it goes overboard in regulation, and then just you know, somebody who really has good connections, or who is already fully loaded, and has the ability to enter, that’s for sure, not what you would want.

Nadja about systems

Nadja Bester: 36:31

To add on this. I homeschool my son, my son has been homeschooled his whole life. I often think about it this way, if I compare who he is, as a person, how he thinks, to, for example, a child that goes to school and is part of the system and doesn’t question, what is happening in the system, to be self-sovereign, is something that doesn’t come naturally to us, because we are born into systems. So, whatever the predominant political system or the education system, these are the education and political systems that we are born into and so to question, what is happening, it takes work.

37:16

In the same sense, if now you are asking users to take care of their funds, whereas before they’ve always entrusted their funds to banks, I mean, it’s education is, I believe, at the very core of what is missing in this industry because conversations like one we are having right now, this is where real talk is happening. Unfortunately, as you say, it’s very easy. It’s a low hanging fruit because look at this project at 10x 60x 100x. I mean, look at the price of Bitcoin. Everyone is chasing or has been chasing the smell of the profits that they are able to make. But I think what markets like these are teaching at least retail investors is- Okay, hang back a little bit.

38:06

I believe the ones that are really savvy are the ones, for example, watching this AMA right now, going, you know what? there’s something missing in my education and it’s my responsibility to increase that. Of course, from the regulatory perspective, I mean, that’s something that’s not in any of our control but I think that as projects, as companies, we also have this responsibility to weed out the bad actors. So, at AdLunam, we continue to build out a very robust, healthy partnership ecosystem. I mean, that’s why we are partnered with 3air, for example. This allows us to almost build, like a hedge against those bad actors, because I believe this is what the industry is missing. People are popping up everywhere. Some of them are good actors. Some of them are bad actors but unfortunately, the ones doing the bad deeds are the ones getting the press.

39:10

So, if ultimately, we become each other’s keepers, in a sense, if we all have this responsibility to make sure that we work with good value driven projects. We are committed to doing the same for our own retail investors. Yes, regulators are always going to come in and have something to say because they are the ones in control of the law but I think it’s very important for us to also keep our side of the street clean. So yeah, our work is not done. It hasn’t even begun. There’s a lot more to do. So happy to be here and happy to be contributing to this.

Sandi talking about the law systems

Anita Mlakar: 39:53

Thank you, Nadja. Maybe this is the moment to include also a comment from Neeraj. He was writing and he actually was talking about what you were talking right now. It is true that education and political systems in many places are in need of revision. The world is changing rapidly and many of these systems were designed for a different time.

Nadja Bester: 40:16

100%

Sandi Bitenc: 40:18

Yeah, absolutely Neeraj. There are also law systems in the world, UK and Europe, where you cannot erase loss, you can just write a law on top of it, and how do we solve that, it’s just impossible to really go and build something new that would be kind of in line with what actually is happening right now and what we need right now. So, there are a lot of stupid things in our current law system that just cannot be erased. When you write a law on top of another law, and then next law comes on top of that one, it’s just become so on transparent and it freezes the economy and the businesses in place, because you literally don’t know what you can do and what you cannot do, it can be interpreted in so many ways, so many different ways. It’s actually a heaven and hell for the lawyers probably and you start something you never know if you did it right or if you did it wrong, or if there’s somewhere along the chain of all the regulations, something that you have actually broken.

Nadja Bester: 41:48

I mean, if this was code, it would be very bad code, and we would fire the developers who wrote that code and get a new one.

Sandi Bitenc: 41:56

So, it’s a lot to do but I do think that blockchain actually has the technology that has the power to change, also the law system. In the end, what’s law? It’s something that kind of tries to guarantee something that’s good for the whole community, right? It’s for the community, it prohibit the minorities to do some stupid things that not everyone else agrees with or would like in their communities. I think Blockchain is actually also all about that, if you look at DAOs and everything, if we can implement some- I would not like to call it actually sanctions, but there are in a sense sanctions for players that we actually don’t want that act in a way that the community doesn’t agree with. I think that’s what law in the end should be.

43:06

Of course, there is a question if people know what they actually want. I don’t think that that individuals necessarily know and have the ability to potentially see what an action right now can mean for the future. But I do think that collectively, we are capable of doing this. If there is a big community that can have the option with on chain voting to, let’s just say, somebody’s got scammed, I do think that should be able to reverse that transaction, if there was a criminal act there, we should be able to reverse that transaction. But then the whole community needs to kind of vote for it.

43:55

In a sense, and this is really just dropping in those things, but I do think if we go and think about and develop things in that way, we can be much safer and it should be much easier for people to actually come into the space, because then you don’t need to really think about your own funds and so on in as much as right now because right now, whatever happened is actually finite, right? If we can, if we can manage and I do think that with time we can manage this, the technology for sure has the option, the ability to do that.

Nadja talking about decentralization and people vs technology

Nadja Bester: 44:37

I mean, I think what is difficult for people to keep in perspective is essentially at the end of the day, we are talking about decentralization as a technology, and that’s very different than what is being built on top of this decentralized technology because the whole premise of this entire industry is replace trust, because humans are fallible creatures, every time that we trust each other, we are bound to be disappointed. It’s built into who we are as a species, it’s not going to change anytime soon.

45:19

So, because of our own intellectual evolution and cultural evolution, we’ve come to a point where we’ve built a technology that can replace the one weakness that we have, which is we cannot trust and we cannot be trusted. So keeping in mind that the technology is trustless, but people building on top of the technology, they are still people, and they still have their own prerogatives. So using these systems that we know like the legal system, I mean, the legal system in every country was created by a group of people with their own objectives and while we would love to believe that it’s all for the good of the people, then we all know in our everyday interactions with institutions, that people running institutions, have their own mini operations, that’s perhaps not part of the official purpose of the institution.

46:25

So I think ultimately, what we are seeing right now, in terms of this technology is a lot of promise. But it really is so much in its infancy, that probably 50 years from now, I mean, I would love for it to not take that long but if we look 50 years from now, we will be able to look back and go, Wow, that seemed really new to us at the time. But it’s going to take a lot of work to get from where we are to across the international community, in every industry in every system, except that trustless is superior to trusting fallible people in the positions that we are placing them into. So, let’s see. A lot of things will need to happen for that Utopia to take place. But I do believe it’s possible overtime. Not sure if in my generation, I would like to believe so, but if not, at some point in the future.

Nadja talking about importance self-education

Anita Mlakar: 47:35

Nadja, talking about now since you are the host of the future of NFTs. What is your feeling? how adaptable are people or how interested are they to learn new things? To learn about crypto? To learn about what we were talking right now, we said that in this AMA in a way we are also educating people not just saying what we have, and what is our project, but also educating which is very important and this is the real empowerment, as we always say, how is you’re feeling about that?

Nadja Bester: 48:11

I would love to have a more positive feeling or answer. I think at the moment, what we are seeing people have been burnt. They have put a lot of money into things that they perhaps don’t understand. While we can say do your own research, it’s your responsibility to make sense of all this stuff. Players in the industry are the ones who need people to understand what they are doing. So, if someone is investing into a project without understanding what this project is doing, in some sense, it is also the responsibility of the project. The narratives that we have been pushing in the industry have been so much related to 10x 20x hyping this up, hyping that up and where has that led us?

49:09

So I think for me, the question is, if you look around you, and you are the only person left standing, this should be an indication that you need to start asking some questions. So at the moment, I see that there is really not a lot of interest from the general population. People who historically have been interested in crypto, involved with crypto are leaving. Now I’m not saying that this is a permanent situation. This is a bear market after all, but the fact that we have these cycles where in a bull market everyone rushes in, and as soon as the money becomes no longer the issue, everyone leaves, that is a clear indication that something is wrong, because we are not doing this for the money. I mean, if we are only doing this for the money, then let’s start getting honest about it. Let’s tell everyone, hey, let’s all make a lot of money together. But this is not what brilliant minds are in this industry for, they are here to shape the future, they are here to write in the books of history, to change the course of society and of business and if this is what companies are committed to doing, then it really is so important for us to ask, but where are all the people that we are trying to reach? Why are they not here? So really, I believe that education is so crucially important.

50:37

We see this because we have a number of content channels on Twitter spaces, on podcasts, on YouTube and we’ve seen the numbers drop. This could be an indication of Oh, no, let’s stop doing this for now because no one’s watching. Or it could be an indication that you know what? this is the time for the narrative to be reshaped. If companies in the space are showing up and pushing out what’s important. So namely, learn about what’s going on, understand about what’s going on, when the market picks back up, be in a much more educated position to make the right decisions. I believe that that is going to shift how we do things going forward.

51:23

I’m very thankful to you guys for showing up every week because I think this is the kind of thing that really sends such a clear message. Even if right now it’s like that quote about, dance like nobody’s watching. I mean, even if no one’s watching right now, literally, sometimes, it’s so important that we keep showing up because that is the message that we are sending, we are still here doing the right thing and when you already come and learn with us.

Nadja’s perspective about 3air

Anita Mlakar: 51:52

Wow, so true Nadja. Regarding that, how and where do you see 3air in this space? From your perspective?

Nadja Bester: 52:02

You mean, I am South African. So yeah, hey, South Africa! and hey, Africa! Very happy to be talking to you guys because it’s not often that projects, I think, focus on the African continent and I have worked with startups. I’ve been in the startup space for a long time as a mentor, as an advisor. I’ve worked with startups everywhere.

52:31

The one thing that I’ve always found to be such a pain is if you look at the continent of Africa, there’s no shortage of talent. I mean, Africans are some of the most beautiful, amazing, talented people that I’ve ever met in my life. And yet, things that we have, everyday things that we take for granted. There are so many millions of people, even, in some cases, billions of people who don’t have access to those things. So, I think what 3air is doing is so important because the step between being connected to the world, because that’s the first step, right? If you’re disconnected, you’ve cut off from everything. But as soon as you get an entry point, that’s only the first step. Of course, that’s only the first step but that’s such an important step. And it’s genuinely being overlooked. And it’s understandable because Africa is a tough market to operate in for very many different reasons. But yeah, very grateful and thankful as an African. Thank you, Sandi and thank you, Anita, for the work that you are doing to connect Africa.

Anita Mlakar: 53:53

Thank you very much, Nadja.

Sandi Bitenc: 53:54

Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for your support and support of AdLunam?

How to find Nadja?

Anita Mlakar: 53:54

Yes, absolutely. Nadja, for the ending of this beautiful AMA and conversation with you. Where can people reach you? Where can they find you? Where can they follow you?

Nadja Bester: 54:13

Sir, for AdLunam, probably the best place to start would be Twitter. All of our updates are on Twitter. So, you can follow @AdLunamInc. You can also follow me personally on Twitter, I’m not super active on there. But you are able to also follow the new project that I mentioned that I will be working on my book 12 use cases in 12 months, which is Web3 explained, and you can also find that on the website Web3 explained. Today and for AdLunam all of our links are on the Twitter so just start there and it’ll take you everywhere you want to go.

Anita Mlakar: 54:54

Thank you very much.

Sandi Bitenc: 54:56

We’re gonna follow you with your book. I think it’s a really amazing idea, great job.

Nadja Bester: 55:02

Sandi, but it’s gonna be an experiential experience. So, I am inviting you, you can please feel free to come co-create this with me, I will be talking to a whole bunch of people over the course of the year. I have no idea what the book is going to look like, I have no idea what’s going to be in there. I will let myself be guided by the experiments and by the people that I speak to. So yeah, it’s an exciting time and I look forward to creating it with everyone.

Sandi Bitenc: 55:29

Great. I will for sure join.

Nadja Bester: 55:34

Looking forward, and Anita you have no reason not to because now you know me, and I will show you the ins and outs.

Anita Mlakar: 55:44

Thank you very much. Looking forward to that. Really excited. And thank you really for taking time being a guest today and showing so many insights, experiences that you have, with us. And of course, with our audience. It has been a really nice conversation. I’ve learned a lot and I’m thankful for that.

Nadja Bester: 56:06

A shout out to this community because I see there’s so many comments happening, I haven’t had time to read them, but I see that this is a very active community. I just want to commend everyone who’s on here right now because as I said earlier, these are the people who are going to take this forward, the ones showing up at this time where nothing is happening because now everything is happening.

Anita Mlakar: 56:30

So true. Richard is saying make your book an NFT eBook.

Nadja Bester: 56:36

It’s in the works.

Anita Mlakar: 56:41

Thanks again for being with us. And looking forward to our next AMA. I’m sure that you will be with us again.

Nadja Bester: 56:47

Thank you so much. It’s been an absolute privilege and a blessing. Thank you, guys. And yeah, looking forward to the next time.

Christmas preparations

Anita Mlakar: 56:54

Wishing you nice holidays and nice Christmas. Bye.

Nadja Bester: 56:57

I just wanted to add Sandi, you said that in Florida, people celebrate Christmas, something crazy. I thought that in South Africa, we celebrate Christmas. But I’ve spent the last few years in Asia over Christmases. And being back in Europe. Now, I am just amazed. I’m being interviewed by a journalist locally tomorrow and I have been instructed to wear a Christmas sweater. And I said Well, I’ve never owned one. And they were very surprised to hear that. So apparently Europeans are very good at celebrating Christmas too. So Merry Christmas, everybody.

Sandi Bitenc: 57:37

Yeah, I’m sure Europe has a lot of tradition for sure. Europe was Christian for most of the time, but I saw some Christmas sweaters also here in the hot Florida. I’m telling you it’s crazy.

Nadja Bester: 57:55

Now that’s crazy. Here, I can understand that because it’s freezing. In Florida, no way. That’s dedication to Christmas.

Sandi Bitenc: 58:04

It is.

Nadja Bester: 58:06

So lovely to be with you today, guys. Looking forward to speaking again soon.

Anita Mlakar: 58:12

Thank you, Nadja. I wish you all the best. Bye.

Sandi Bitenc: 58:16

Bye.

Anita Mlakar: 58:18

Okay, so do we have come to the end of this AMA. Maybe is there something that you would like to add before we end this beautiful session?

Sandi Bitenc: 58:29

Just in regards to the general market, all eyes within an hour we’re having the FOMC meeting, and the new rate hikes will be announced. So hopefully we get the 50 basis points or less, then I think we’re good to at least stay at the level that we are and probably go a bit more up but if in any case comes due to another 75 basis points rate hikes, then hold on tight it’s going to be bumpy again. But I think that’s the most important thing that’s coming up right now. And because the CPI numbers yesterday came out favorably. We already seen a rally in the stock markets and also in the crypto markets and I think the last time I checked just before we started the AMA the Bitcoin was just above 18k again, thankfully, and let’s see if it can persist then I think we have around 10 days of until Christmas and holidays where everyone goes into holiday mood and the volumes usually drop a lot. I think until then we might see some really nice gains again. If the rate hikes come back favorable.

Anita Mlakar: 1:00:01

I hope they will. Sandi, thank you!

Sandi Bitenc: 1:00:06

If you know if you didn’t hear yet so Sam Bankman-Fried was arrested yesterday in the Bahamas and we’ll be spending some cold nights, although not so cold in prison in the Bahamas. I think he should be extradited to the US somewhere beginning of February. He’s been charged with a lot so he’s actually facing 85 years of prison. Right now, calculated I think the max prison sentence that he could potentially get from what he’s been charged with.

Anita Mlakar: 1:00:52

Wow. So, the hands of law are still working, let’s say and we’ll see what will be happening of course Sandi, looking forward to you explaining that to us every week, a little market update and everything else. So, thank you very much for being with us. We will be here next week, next Wednesday as usual.

Sandi Bitenc: 1:01:14

Yes, I think I’ll be able to make it. I have my flight to from Dubai to Slovenia and, but I think I’ll be already on the ground and somewhere in the car probably in driving towards Maribor.

Anita Mlakar: 1:01:33

Okay, looking forward to seeing you live. Enjoy your time, Sandi, that is left at your partly vacation. Then welcome to Slovenia. Okay.

Sandi Bitenc: 1:01:49

Thank you.

Anita Mlakar: 1:01:49

Thanks, everybody, for watching, for being with us and of course stay tuned and stay members of our communities to get more information. Bye.

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